Blood mixed with water flowed out of Jesus' spear wound because he was stabbed in the stomach (probably).
We have almost no detailed information on the location of Jesus' spear wound. However, we do know three things:
1. The spear head must enter the "side", which could mean anywhere on the lateral aspect of Jesus' abdomen or torso.
2. Jesus was elevated on a cross, therefore the spear thrust would have been at an upward angle.
3. Blood mixed with water exited the wound.
There are numerous complicated scenarios in which water could have exited through the wound along with blood--most notably a pleural effusion that built up from a previous injury. These scenarios are less likely because they require an additional hypothesis (that one of the previous injuries caused abnormal fluid buildup in one of Jesus' body cavities, and this was later pierced by the spear).
But there are two situations that do not require an additional hypothesis. There are two locations where "water" builds up under normal circumstances--the stomach (Figure 1) and the bladder.
A spear wound to the bladder is so unlikely that it is hardly worth mentioning*.
A spear wound to the stomach is extremely likely (Figure 1). First, a spear wound that entered Jesus' stomach definitely would have been described as a spear wound "to the side". Second, the elevation of Jesus and the upward angle of the thrust favors a stomach wound (Figure 2). Third, Jesus had fluid in his stomach (beyond the normal gastric acid that is always present):
The stomach wound scenario is so obvious that I cannot fathom how it isn't widely accepted as the leading hypothesis for Jesus' spear wound.
If Jesus had died from previous injuries, there would have been fluid in his stomach, and the spear would have caused that fluid to mix (at least partially) with blood. If Jesus were alive, the same thing would have happened.
In fact, the stomach would have been hard to miss using an upward thrust to the side of an elevated victim. Check out a horizontal cross-section of the upper abdomen (Figure 2). Because the spear was traveling at an upward angle into an elevated victim, the horizontal plane is especially helpful for illustrating what organs would have been in the way of the spear thrust. The primary target (that definitely would have produced blood mixed with water) is the stomach.
Conversely, at an upward angle, a spear thrust would have difficulty passing directly between two ribs (the more vertical the angle, the harder it would be). This isn't to say that a spear thrust couldn't break ribs (it could), it's just less likely than a stomach wound (which wouldn't have needed to either "thread the needle" or break ribs). This is especially true if the spear had a broad head. And again, the scenarios in which "water" is mixed with blood require additional hypotheses for thorax wounds. A stomach wound scenario does not.
A spear wound to the heart would have released SO MUCH blood that it is unlikely that observers would have been able to appreciate any "water" coming from the wound, even if fluid had built up somewhere (unless it was a very large amount of fluid--which again requires far more mental gymnastics than a simple stomach wound). Observers definitely would have noted the watery appearance of fluid emanating from a stomach wound.
In conclusion, by far the most likely scenario is that Jesus was stabbed in the stomach.
The bladder-wound scenario
*Because Jesus was elevated on the cross, a spear wound thrust upward would have needed to enter Jesus' leg and travel upward to eventually pierce his bladder, and it would have needed to pass through thick bones to do so. This did not happen.
But the stomach is only on one side!
True. Only wounds to Jesus' left side fit with this scenario. Similar wounds to the right side of Jesus' body would have hit the liver, which would not have resulted in "water" mixed with blood exiting the wound.
What about hitting both the stomach and the heart?
A spear thrust could go all the way through the stomach and then enter the heart. This definitely would have killed Jesus. However, this scenario is less likely than a simple stomach wound.
We have almost no detailed information on the location of Jesus' spear wound. However, we do know three things:
1. The spear head must enter the "side", which could mean anywhere on the lateral aspect of Jesus' abdomen or torso.
2. Jesus was elevated on a cross, therefore the spear thrust would have been at an upward angle.
3. Blood mixed with water exited the wound.
There are numerous complicated scenarios in which water could have exited through the wound along with blood--most notably a pleural effusion that built up from a previous injury. These scenarios are less likely because they require an additional hypothesis (that one of the previous injuries caused abnormal fluid buildup in one of Jesus' body cavities, and this was later pierced by the spear).
But there are two situations that do not require an additional hypothesis. There are two locations where "water" builds up under normal circumstances--the stomach (Figure 1) and the bladder.
A spear wound to the bladder is so unlikely that it is hardly worth mentioning*.
A spear wound to the stomach is extremely likely (Figure 1). First, a spear wound that entered Jesus' stomach definitely would have been described as a spear wound "to the side". Second, the elevation of Jesus and the upward angle of the thrust favors a stomach wound (Figure 2). Third, Jesus had fluid in his stomach (beyond the normal gastric acid that is always present):
"28After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, to fulfill the Scripture, *said, “I am thirsty.” 29 A
jar full of sour wine was standing there; so they put a sponge full of
the sour wine upon a branch of hyssop and brought it up to His mouth. 30 Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit." (John 19:28-30)
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| Figure 1. Spear thrust to the stomach. Modified from http://healtharchives.info. |
The stomach wound scenario is so obvious that I cannot fathom how it isn't widely accepted as the leading hypothesis for Jesus' spear wound.
If Jesus had died from previous injuries, there would have been fluid in his stomach, and the spear would have caused that fluid to mix (at least partially) with blood. If Jesus were alive, the same thing would have happened.
In fact, the stomach would have been hard to miss using an upward thrust to the side of an elevated victim. Check out a horizontal cross-section of the upper abdomen (Figure 2). Because the spear was traveling at an upward angle into an elevated victim, the horizontal plane is especially helpful for illustrating what organs would have been in the way of the spear thrust. The primary target (that definitely would have produced blood mixed with water) is the stomach.
 |
| Figure 2. Stomach outlined in green. Modified from http://www.netanatomy.com. |
Conversely, at an upward angle, a spear thrust would have difficulty passing directly between two ribs (the more vertical the angle, the harder it would be). This isn't to say that a spear thrust couldn't break ribs (it could), it's just less likely than a stomach wound (which wouldn't have needed to either "thread the needle" or break ribs). This is especially true if the spear had a broad head. And again, the scenarios in which "water" is mixed with blood require additional hypotheses for thorax wounds. A stomach wound scenario does not.
A spear wound to the heart would have released SO MUCH blood that it is unlikely that observers would have been able to appreciate any "water" coming from the wound, even if fluid had built up somewhere (unless it was a very large amount of fluid--which again requires far more mental gymnastics than a simple stomach wound). Observers definitely would have noted the watery appearance of fluid emanating from a stomach wound.
In conclusion, by far the most likely scenario is that Jesus was stabbed in the stomach.
The bladder-wound scenario
*Because Jesus was elevated on the cross, a spear wound thrust upward would have needed to enter Jesus' leg and travel upward to eventually pierce his bladder, and it would have needed to pass through thick bones to do so. This did not happen.
But the stomach is only on one side!
True. Only wounds to Jesus' left side fit with this scenario. Similar wounds to the right side of Jesus' body would have hit the liver, which would not have resulted in "water" mixed with blood exiting the wound.
What about hitting both the stomach and the heart?
A spear thrust could go all the way through the stomach and then enter the heart. This definitely would have killed Jesus. However, this scenario is less likely than a simple stomach wound.
It still would've killed him, a sliced stomach even today with modern medicine isn't easy to survive from. If somebody alive was stabbed in the stomach they would've winced, moved or reacted to it. Clearly Jesus didn't, hence why the guard declared him dead after he stabbed him in the stomach. Jesus mustn't have reacted to it, which a guard who's job it is to kill, would've had the past experience to declare "he's dead". Not to mention the guards were put to death if they failed to kill a criminal when commanded to do so.
ReplyDeleteAlso, let's say Jesus did survive, it's extremely unlikely he'd be up and about a few days later, walking around, sneaking up on people (when he was walking beside them disguised and chatting), allowing his friend to poke his terrible and most likely very painful wounds (which would again increase likelihood of infection) and generally be in a loving and peaceful mood giving teachings still and chatting with his friends. Again, even today with modern medicine you'd be completely exhausted and destroyed from it for weeks, you'd barely be able to walk and need extensive physiotherapy after having nails driven through your feet or legs, you wouldn't be able to use your hands and also require extensive physiotherapy after having nails driven through your wrists (and most likely arteries, you'd be lucky to get any blood to your hands after that), you wouldn't be able to eat or drink for weeks (after being stabbed in the stomach as you claim), so if there's no modern IV drip to give him fluids, vitamins and minerals and in the red hot middle East he wouldn't have survived past 1 or 2 days if he was lucky, plus we already know he was thirsty and most likely dehydrated so maybe even less than that. If he had drunk water with a sliced stomach he'd just likely have thrown it straight up, been in horrendous pain and it might've even ruptured it again if it had even healed. Not to mention infection from the spear blade and burning stomach acid getting into his body and wound, there's a reason we have special lining in our stomach to stop that hydrochloric acid burning our internal body, if he was stabbed then also that's gotten out of his stomach into his body now.
Hi! Thank you so much for these comments!! Sorry I only just saw them. I will respond as I am able to.
DeleteI'll do my best to respond to your main points:
Delete1. You said a stab wound to the stomach is difficult to survive even with modern medicine. That's simply false. Stomach wounds are easily survivable. What matters is the involvement of vascular structures. Not a perfect tie-in, but here's an article on abdominal gunshot would survival rates (with modern medical intervention--but gunshot wounds are far more lethal than spear thrusts): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1493651/
97.3% of patients with abdominal wounds (including wounds to the stomach) survived. What killed patients was wounds to vascular structures--so basically if Jesus was struck in a major artery, I would agree that he would almost definitely die (especially considering that he was already dehydrated, and probably in hypovolemic shock). A stab wound primarily to the stomach that didn't involve major arteries? Very survivable. In fact, one of the places in my abdomen I would personally pick to be stabbed (second only to lower left quadrant).
2. You said that Jesus would have winced from the wound. In my proposed scenario he was unconscious. Depending on his level of consciousness he would not have necessarily winced. Patients can not wince and still be alive.
Delete3. Your general assessment of how well Jesus could have recovered is flawed in many ways. I will only respond to a few major points, but I am open to discuss it further if these responses are not sufficient:
DeleteA. Jesus' primary medical issue would have been dehydration. After rehydrating, he would be able to teach. No I don't think he would have felt particularly good, but the nail wounds would not have been much of an issue, and a stab wound (to the stomach) also would not have been a major issue--especially if given a few days to heal while resting/sleeping in a cave without eating or drinking--ironically that isolation might have facilitated the healing of a stomach wound.
At any rate, after rehydrating he would dramatically improve.
B. He could definitely get blood to his arms. I encourage you to learn some forearm and lower limb anatomy. In the case of the wrists, it would be impossible for a nail to puncture every major artery (look at the position of the radial artery as an example--then look more distally and note the anastamosis in the hand). The fact that the nails stayed in for a long time would have actually prevented excessive bleeding from any major arteries hit as well.
C. You are correct that he would likely lose some function in his wrists/hands (but not all) and walking would be difficult. You are also correct that he would be in pain. However, I disagree that these injuries would necessarily make locomotion or teaching impossible. Consider president Theodore Roosevelt, who kept delivering a speech for over an hour after getting shot in the chest. What made that possible was very much the fact that major vascular structures were not damaged by the bullet. The same is true for Jesus.
4. You said that Jesus wouldn't be able to eat or drink for weeks after a stomach wound. This is false--I'm curious to know where you are getting your medical information from? It very much depends on the extent of the wound. A piercing wound from a spear would likely heal very well, especially if Jesus rested and fasted in a cool, isolated place for a few days (which he did). Rehydration after that would definitely be possible.
Delete5. Access to vitamins and minerals are a non-factor in this situation. Unless he was starving or malnourished prior to the crucifixion, that wouldn't have mattered at all. Hydration and blood pressure are what matter.
Delete6. We don't know how hot/humid it was on the relevant days. I spent a long time trying to figure this out, because it's literally the most important factor for Jesus' survival odds (other than location of the spear wound). It's inaccurate to generalize the middle east as "red hot". Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Were there clouds in the sky that day? If so how many? Was there wind? What was the humidity level? We don't know--but what we do know is that these were conditions that Jesus lived in for his entire life. We also know that Jesus was highly adept at fasting (in these same or similar conditions.
Delete7. Leakage of hydrochloric acid would be very unlikely to kill Jesus. This happens somewhat frequently in medical scenarios--I encourage you to do a little reading on gastrointestinal fistulas.
Delete8. Infection. Exactly!!! Now you are absolutely correct. And that is actually how I think Jesus died. After rehydration, he would be able to appear to his followers for a period of weeks or months and actually be quite normal (which would be VERY impressive to his followers). I suspect he knew that he was going to die (he explicitly tells his disciples that he is going away, and that that is actually better for them because then the Spirit will come). I think Jesus then went to pray somewhere alone (as he would often do), and died of a massive infection. His body was not found (at least not by his followers). His disciples genuinely interpreted this as resurrection followed by ascention into heaven (and were therefore willing to die for their belief).
DeleteRoman spears (Pilums) were about 60 cm long at the spear tip, in order to stab through skin it's really not easy (hence the sharpness of a surgical scalpel. I've hunted and skinned animals before myself before cooking them and it's pretty tough, humans are supposed to be even tougher. Similar to a pig they say, and it isn't easy and would generally take a good hard push to get through, once you're in it slips in faster because the skin is the tough bit and you've already got the momentum from the initial push and it's only softer organs now, it would take more control to stab somebody and then hold back to not go through them too deeply than the opposite. Which again, given the guard is already stabbing him (I highly doubt empathy has suddenly crept in) and he's also at risk of getting in serious trouble himself if he doesn't finish the job, so it seems he'd be looking for it to go all the way in if anything.
ReplyDeleteNot only that, but let's say he survived and didn't ascend into heaven then what did he do? Go off and hide and live somewhere else? Where nobody knew him? Odds are he would've been seen as very suspicious and strange in a completely new society. He was well known anyway throughout the region. History shows us that any cult creator (which is what's being suggested) doesn't just wander off into the sunset never to be heard of again, they carry on, the cult allure continues and they try to create new cults or reinvigorate their old one. Either that or he ended up being a recluse in an area of the world that's very hard to survive in (the middle Eastern desert), especially alone in the wilderness and to also never been seen by anybody ever again or risk being spotted and then the entire gig is up!
Spear wounds can be any depth. I feel that you are grasping for certainty in a place where historical evidence won't permit it. In medicine we see all kinds of puncture/stab/slice wounds. They can literally be any depth (other than not exceeding the length of the blade in most cases).
DeleteAlready responded to your second paragraph. See point 8 above.
If he did die, he was incredibly famous with thousands of followers, everybody knew his disciples, it would've been extremely difficult to get his body out and hidden somewhere without anybody noticing or saying anything and then rumor spreading and the whole "he's been resurrected" story would've been blown out of the water then. Plus many stated they had seen him alive. If I remember rightly the disciples stayed in Jerusalem for a while afterwards and went back and forth to convert. So they clearly were in no rush to leave, if they had hidden the body and had to try to lie about him they wouldn't want to be in the very place people knew him and many wanted him and his teachings/"cult" dead. They'd have hid him miles away and gone off, not risk even further persecution knowing it was all just a lie. Even to their dying breath (which even Roman and Jewish records show) declaring it to be true still. I mean at that point surely you'd think "this is pointless, I know it's a lie, so does everybody else I'm not dying for this lie!" and yet not 1 of his followers did this, they all stuck to it until the end and even accepted death because of it, in the most brutal ways. It was only John who died of old age, the rest were brutally killed. Not only that, if it was a lie then you'd be thinking the whole time "hmm maybe one of the others have finally told the truth? I mean there are thousands of us and even 12 of us disciples, surely one has blurted it out under the threat of death, like the threat of death I'm under now? Yeah I'm just going to come clean then I can live!" But no. Nobody said this, they all stuck to it, like you would if it was true.
ReplyDeleteHowever back to the days following the crucifixion, if they'd just seen the Messiah be resurrected with their own eyes and prove once and for all he was who he said he was (not that there was much doubt left at that point anyway considering the miracles) then of course their fear of death would dissipate quickly and they'd be getting themselves out there asap converting and doing their absolute best to please their creator knowing fine well nothing that bad can happen to them because beautiful paradise awaits. That's exactly what they did... If they didn't we wouldn't have Christianity today.
Please see point 8 on my response to your first comment!
DeleteI'm not saying that the biblical version of events is definitely true exactly as it says (although I admit I think they are, but I'm open to skeptical thought about it). But by using the scriptures and coming up with these silly ways of "oh but he was stabbed in the stomach, therefore he lived" scenarios, based on what scripture says at least, it seems much less likely he survived and went about his day as mentioned above. Given the way the story is told I'd have to lean on resurrection, but that doesn't mean it's 100% correct it's just more likely than what you're suggesting given the eyewitness testimonies from 4 individual people (bar Luke himself directly).
ReplyDeleteBy the way, thanks in general for your comments. You made me think about several things I hadn't considered. Please don't hesitate to hit me with more ideas.
DeleteThis is a well thought out point, although I'm curious if you still think I'm grasping for "silly scenarios" after reading my comments? This issue is very important for my own personal beliefs--I genuinely want to know what happened either way.
ReplyDeleteThank you for not assigning 100% certainty to any given scenario here. It's impossible to find certainty in this, but that doesn't mean we can't do our best to figure out what most likely happened.
I'm currently still working on that. It may take another decade of study before I learn enough to form a truly sound opinion on this. My medical expertise will drastically increase over that time period, which will help me think about these issues better.
And yet all the images show the other side.
ReplyDeleteSorry